Female “gaming” internet celebrities: Someone asks them a legitimate question, they scream misogyny and shame the person, often setting their supporters on them.
Male gaming internet celebrity: Idiot calls the SWAT to his office during a stream, becomes…
Oh hey - you didn’t reply to my thing. BUT, exclusionary men gamer types have produced many toxic environments for myself and friends in the past. Following girls around lans. Ignoring your points in conversation only to repeat them. Assuming that you don’t know jack shit about a game and then talking to you like a little kindergarten person. Game developers aren’t the only ones who are safe: Do you think holding corporate parties at strip clubs is exclusionary to all genders? (Note: just the girls were stripping).
There’s a lot of not so great environments produced by “All one type of people”. Just like for example guys wearing nail polish - my boyfriend does that and older women customers at his work comment about it.
SJW aren’t the only one who have made games environments toxic - maybe the reason why there are so many of them out there or whatever, is because people who have put up with their crap are sick of it, and it’s a way of fighting back.
I’ve been keeping a track of the notes on this post all day and I’ve not seen anything from you until now, but I’ll reply:
The first thing (ignoring people then coming out with it themselves) is something that gamers do anyway. I dislike it personally, but it isn’t just done to females. Assuming you know nothing is - again - something done to everyone, not females. You know how you deal with that situation, though? You prove your gamer cred. You don’t moan about it and call it misogyny. That’s what makes people dislike you, even the ones who dislike you being treated that way (and I do). I think it’s shitty to assume that someone doesn’t know shit about games, but it’s part of the gaming community - it isn’t female exclusive. Besides that, the gaming community is HUGE, with many different types of people. I do not get along with CoD-esque gamers. Those games don’t appeal to me and I don’t like the childish, unintelligent whining and namecalling that’s prevalent in those types of games. That doesn’t mean I’m not a gamer, and excluding yourself from a section of gaming because you dislike it doesn’t make you “not a gamer” either. Some sections of gaming appeal to certain types of people, others don’t. You cannot expect every section of the gaming community to pander to your desires. It isn’t going to work that way.
I don’t have a clue what you’re talking about with the strip club anecdote, but why does that even matter? Okay, a bunch of employees go to a club to view consenting women strip for their gratification? A little weird, but not misogynistic, in the same way that women viewing male strippers isn’t misandry.
You’re right - a lot of places created solely for one type of person naturally have social conventions that make other types of people uncomfortable. We adapt. The system adapts. However, it doesn’t adapt by bitching at it and shaming the people who are part of it, which is exactly what “female gamers” and feminists have been doing. People do not respond well to attacks on their person, especially attempts to shame them for an action that (within their own circle) is viewed as acceptable.
It’s an unacceptable way of fighting back, pure and simple. It is the Neanderthal’s way of fighting back (literally). Attack, don’t use logic, keep at it until it dies. That’s all they do. They do not think. They do not reason. They do not try diplomacy. They go straight to the attacking, because they can get away with it.
And from the sheer amount of supporters both Quinn and Sarkeesian have gathered… it’s evident that they have gotten away with it.
Edit: No, you didn’t prove any point. Give people more than 3 minutes to reply to your post, especially if you expect intellectual complexity, please.
OH!! No not you, the other person aha! I’m new to tumblr so I don;t know what the reply rates are like! (I’m so sorry to bug you like that - I wrote out this big long post for another person - encouraging to tell me some of their points about journalism as I would actually love more information about what they actually think is corrupt about it! Mostly as from my perspective everything has been so transparent!
Sorry the person who I was responding to wrote:
Anita Sarkeesian was ‘threatened’ in a sexual way because she is a person who constantly talks about sexism. This is what internet trolls do. This is the same reason why anyone on this website who talks about how fucked up it is that it’s normal for us to commit genital mutilation en-mass get tons of anonymous messages threatening to cut off their genitals.
That’s how internet trolling works. Though I guess when a woman is the target it’s not ‘trolling’ it’s ‘harassment’ right?
Also I assume the OP used quotes around the terms “gaming” because Anita Sarkeesian doesn’t play games. Men don’t care about women voicing their opinions in regards to gaming, men (and everyone with any kind of a brain) care about the legitimacy of their arguments, of which most social justice types in regards to sexism in gaming, or the ‘real world repercussions’ have none.
The only people that create a ‘toxic atmosphere for women in gaming’ are the social justice types that make it a point of contention to be a female involved in gaming either as a consumer or on the development side by creating a false narrative wherein they are depicted as helpless children coerced into believing they are perpetual victims.
Rather than adults with the ability to think for their own and to do both good andbad things.
I did spend quite a bit of time replying to them, and welcoming them to really open game dev events like lost levels where everyones voices could be heard. So I’m so sorry you got mixed up in all this! :)
I’ll reply to your original post though! (Again, I’m so sorry). I only had lunch with Zoe once, but she’s super lovely from what I met her. (I’m also an indie game dev female), People like Anita, Leigh (alexander) and Zoe aren’t always the norm in indie dev. There’s a lot of people (like myself) afraid to speak up about anything, unless its in known safe spaces - like for example twitter,. There’s a lot of casual sexism, misoginy? (don’t really use that word), going on. Fear of getting fired, fear from being excluded are all legitimate corncerns are speaking out.
When you have people like Anita and Zoe, suddenly having two people going “Hey harrasment is shit” we can all kind of chime in under someone elses skin. That sounds really horrible, but it’s true in a really fucked up way. Like I don’t really tweet (under my name) about computer science bullying - while I haven’t said it to the world, that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
From what I met briefly of Zoe (I know Maya or legobutts better who’s another out spoken indie dev) or even Brenda Romero (who’s like the beyonce of game dev :p), all of them speak up about the issues that they face, and with tags like #1reasonwhy we can kind of speak about our experiences in a safe space (that have been building up for a while). It’s people like those guys that help create safe space for people like me who’s afraid of being outspoken.
Anyway - the person who’s point I was trying to talk to said that “The only people who create a toxic atmopshere” are SJW, which is not true. While gamings toxic atmosphere might be a problem of the lack of diversity - just like any field with a lack of diversity. Teaching is one such example where the male teachers (in Australia) are about 1/5.
I brought up the strip club example as an example of a toxic environment that having all one gender can create. It’s kind of unnerving recieving a party invite from a women who’s in a revealing tank top, mini skirt and a storm trooper helmet… The official venue of x companies party is at a strip club… I don’t really feel very welcome there, even though I really want to network with people.
I don’t think bitching solves problems if we continuously do it within our social circles which are safe. It was the #1reasonwhy, which - might be counted as bitching, but was really a testimony of what all of the casual (or not so casual) sexism was in the games industry. (for example at the microsoft Women in Gamings lunch which is almost ALL women with the exception of like 5? men), vs WIG round tables (which is 50 split). The lunch is always more progressive as we can skip basic issues like “Oh hey, it’s not cool to give a women 10 000 less off the bat, because she won’t fight”, *Actual quote from hiring manager*
This brought on an array of panels called “#1reasontobe”, and was more positive change in the industry, like “Hey, maybe this sexism stuff really sucks”. And it does - like I think I counted about 8 times at the microsoft party if I was “With some one” or “Are you actually a game developer”, (granted after my 8 tequila sunrise, I started my introduction to people with coloured hair going “Oh hey - so are you an indie developer too?”. (sidenote totally worked, got to meet the narrative director at bungie / had an awesome discussion with him about the way ladies get treated as well as other things).
What Zoe and Anita (as well as so many other ladies) is call the games industry out on it’s bullshit, that so many of us can’t do. (there’s been SO many cases of ladies getting fired for speaking out. It’s ridiculous).
I do think censorship (although if it’s revealing personal details) and name calling is pathetic though. And I am truly embarrassed and sorry if any of the game developers have sunk down to that level.
But yes, I can understand where you are coming from about the people making a big deal! (Also - kudos to that guy for taking the swat like a champ. I hope he catches the person who did that because holyfuck that could be dangerous). / really hope it doesn’t encorage more people in the future. Berrrghghh.
Anyway, I’m so sorry for that comment - the other person had an emotionally thick argument which I spent quite a long time debunking. I still would like to know what their views on journalism was, since the majority of the information they got was from the Internet Aristocats video (which oh my god, that video was so wrong in so many ways. Ahhh. - though, I shall not send him any death threats or hate mail haha!)
Anyway, again - apologies! Hopefully this clears a few things up for you! :) (Thanks for replying so quickly, great response for 3 minutes)
Was reading some of your other responses. Zoe did not fuck her way through this industry. (At all). First off, I don’t want to discuss peoples personal lives, but she was already famous before the wizard?? chan stuff even happened: she ran a few groups for example Dames Making games and would do quite a few parody games. A lot of people were also interested in her larger game that she was making, depression quest.
Anyway, without trying to go into people’s personal lives, you can’t “Fuck” your way through indie games development. Why? Most of us have no money, and most of us are a large % of the overall work produced. For example, with the exception of a few extra animator contractors, loveshack is pretty much 3 people, josh would NOT hire Zoe on anything other based on talent. (Zoe has also got a diverse background from comedy, to photography which I think is some of t he richness that Josh wanted to bring to the Framed Narrative).
Gah, I hate going into people’s lives (but this was on twitter so I can tell you this), but he was in the process of selling his car to fund the game… you don’t sell your car and hire someone you just fucked…
There’s also no fucking the way to top… mostly because we don’t actually have a hierarchy… :P
Oh I see! No worries, then. I wanted to talk to you a bit more personally, as I hate the waiting time between tumblr posts when it comes to amicable discussions (I prefer quicker messages for those). I was going to send you an ask to see if we could discuss the topic elsewhere but unfortunately you don’t seem to have asks enabled, or your theme just doesn’t allow for them.
Regardless, thanks for being civil. :)